[Fandom] Now I need to go re-read canon...

[jennaria]

...because I'm fairly sure that Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince is not actually about Harry's sexual awakening, featuring Draco, the aforementioned Half-Blood Prince, and possibly Ginny Weasley. (I told Wife this. She made the most interesting faces in response.)

In any case. I have now looked through ~500 pages of Harry Potter fanfic on AO3, and come to the following additional conclusions:

- Top AU: rewriting all of canon from the ground up, usually but not invariably sorting Harry into Slytherin. Also tends to peter out somewhere around the Triwizard Tournament. Second Most Common AU: Everything Changes After The Fire Nation Attacks Sirius Dies.

- It's fascinating to follow certain tags down a rabbit hole. 19 pages of 'Pureblood Culture' (but only 6 pages of 'Wizarding Traditions')! (And two and a half of those 19 pages are from one particular author who specializes in the kind of romance where it's super-shocking to brush your hair in front of someone who isn't your family or your fiance, and kissing someone, well. Abstinence porn in the finest Victorian tradition.) 9 pages of 'Wrong Boy-Who-Lived' (which usually involve Harry being a twin, and you can figure it out from there)! And 11 pages of 'Creature Inheritance,' wherein it turns out Draco is a Veela, Harry is a Dragon, and Snape really is a vampire after all. (I kid. Sorta. Not as much as I might be.)

- Also, wow, canon is over here and fanon is over there and I see those of y'all who are trying to bridge the gap, y'all are doing God's work, but it's a really big gap.

- Finally, you know that thing where you're reading a lovely rich WIP, and you get to the end and want more? And go check the Last Updated stamp and it's all 'ha ha this was uploaded from a defunct archive and hasn't been updated in over a decade'? Yeah. :hollow laughter:

Comments

[dine]

I've been reading a LOT of HP fic lately, and your findings sure do mirror some of the stuff I've noticed. it's fascinating (and kinda amazing) just where people go with this fandom

[jennaria]

It's one of The fandoms - people who don't read fantasy at all still have opinions about their Hogwarts house, and virtually every other fandom out there has at least one fusion where their characters go to Hogwarts. The result that there's really kind of something for everyone, somewhere in HP fandom. It might not be well written, but it's there.

[misbegotten]

Loved your analysis of HP fandom. ♥

[jennaria]

Thank you! I'm glad my pain was of some use. ;-)

(Okay, not that much pain. Maybe a little pain. Occasionally I would call Wife into the room and read aloud a fanfic summary, and she'd give me another of those Looks.)

[hitokage]

is it bad that I think the Fire Nation attacking the fandom would be a good thing? *puts self in corner*


but it is reassuring to see I'm not alone in thinking wow fanon has wandered into the tall weeds in places.... and not in the good way.

[jennaria]

:laugh: I stay happily on the edges of the fandom. HP Fandom as such has a reputation, after all.

I've been reading a wide enough cross-section of fanfic - plus re-watching the movies, slowly, and re-reading canon - that the contradictory bits stand out a lot more obviously than they might otherwise. (Also the bits where I am, apparently, too ace for this. Somebody being hot does not excuse them from being an evil asshole! No really! Not even Snape, and I like him!)

[hitokage]

It so does, and not undeservedly so. The habit of large swathes of the fandom to seemingly forget that every single piece of the novels is viewing events through the lens of an unreliable narrator has led to some very ... look, wanting to take a critical look at fiction is good! Great! But you should probably start that critical look somewhere earlier than just blanket excepting Harry's PoV as Perfect Gospel not to be interrogated in the slightest ever. >_> And then there's the whole magic in America thing JK's doing now and I loved Fantastic Beasts and I will totally see the next one, but THAT'S NOT HOW ANY OF THAT WOULD HAVE WORKED. But that's a whole other rant that I have yet to fully form into Actual Words.

Snape... I have feelings on Snape that are not in line with fanon as it currently stands. Definitely still an asshole, though, but again, unreliable narrator means I question how much. But then I question a lot of fanon for that reason. ;)

[jennaria]

Oh, both fanon and canon deserve lots of questioning, and I am here for that. (The new HP movies, oh lord. I'm going to see the next one too, but for me it's filmed fanfic. I can simultaneously love Newt and Tina and Queenie and Jacob and Credence to bits, and hate the sloppiness of the worldbuilding around them.)

My hardcore OTP for Snape is Snape/Therapy. Even more than it being my background OTP for the entire cast. Possibly also Snape/Having Some Friends Who Aren't Albus Fucking Dumbledore. (Is Snape friends with the other Death Eaters? I've seen some fanon that has him besties with the Malfoys, and some where he's *totally* isolated, and I don't know if canon even says anything.)

[hitokage]

I just... no one seems to want to ask why, if Magic is Ancient and Global but European Muggles forced Wizards to hide because of reasons of European culture that ... probably wouldn't have been repeated universally across the planet, then why does the modern world look the same but with magic pasted on yey? [I realize the answer is to change things would have required a hell of a lot more in-depth interrogation and work than Boarding School Shenanigans Trope generally needs or wants, but still.]

Therapy for everyone! Especially Harry! An intense summer session for clueless 11yo muggle-borns who never even knew anything about the wizarding world before throwing them in the deep end! SCHOOL THERAPY FOR ALL BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST THE CASTLE IS LEGIT CURSED YA TOOLS!

... I haven't read the canon in so long, plus again, Harry is totally not a reliable source, but what I remember suggests Snape was pretty isolated. But again, Harry's perspective is completely biased, so who tf knows. I need to reread to see how much the canon ever bothered to develop him as a character or if he was stuck as flat Red Herring Villain until the end, but I'm not sure I can actually make myself read past Book 4 this time. I made it a good third of the way, maybe more, into Book 6 the first time, but 5 was a real grind and 6 just ... I just couldn't take it anymore.

[swingandswirl]

Oh gods, you are a braver soul than I am, wandering into the hellfire cesspit that is HP fic. I have transported myself to AU land and am Not Venturing Out. /nods firmly/ That said, would you like recs? I have some excellent ones, most of which are complete.

TBH, your version of HBP sounds more interesting than what happened in canon. For my own sanity HP is, and always will be, an unfinished four-book series to me, because when JKR tries to write books that aren't Dahl-esque school stories with magic pastede on yey the series just breaks in unfun ways, at least for me.

[jennaria]

I am always down for recs. I mean, I admit that my favorites tend to be stories where Adults Actually Goddamn Well Adult And Harry Doesn't Have To Do Everything (with a side of Everyone/Lots Of Therapy, because damn), or stories where the author runs around and world-builds like a champion to actually make the wizarding world something more than just 'Britain with wands instead of electricity.' On the other hand, I have also (voluntarily!) read multiple fics wherein Harry is a Lord of, like, sixteen titles, and also can turn into a Nundu on second Saturdays, so my taste is hardly infallible.

It really is two sub-series - tonally, plot-wise, world-building, so much shifts between GoF and OotP (and I know you're not remotely the only one who finds the attempted changes a dealbreaker). I haven't actually read 5, 6 and 7: I'm planning on doing so this fall, and probably yelling on here about it. :wry:

[swingandswirl]

/high fives in solidarity/

The last three fic I've started (and am still writing because apparently I am incapable of writing anything under 50K, especially with cowriters) have been some variations of 'Adults Find Out And Flip Their Shit, Sometimes With Genderbends' because honestly, stories about girls are much more interesting, at least for the kind of worldbuilding/politics I like. (fuck you, JKR, girly is not an insult or a bad thing to be.)

FWIW, we have very similar tastes! Those are basically the only two kinds of stories I read, but I have the additional filters of 'no Hermione/Weasley bashing' (oh, would that Ao3 have a filter for this) and 'Jesus Christ Muggles knowing about magic is a BAD THING read a history book' and 'oh my God stop conflating tradition with pureblood supremacy also the books are not this sexist FFS' which means I'm much happier in my own little AUs (which I should totally make a DW post about one of these days...)

Anyway, recs! These are all on fanfiction.net, but I promise they're still excellent despite being on the Pit of Voles. :D

Harry Potter and the Nightmares of Futures Past by S'Tarkan. This would honestly be my canon if I didn't love my various AUs so much. A thirty-year-old Harry, after defeating Voldemort but losing everyone he loves, goes back to fight the war better. It's a WIP and updates veeeeeery slowly, but what is there is amazing - Harry and everyone around him is written so well, his PTSD is dealt with realistically and beautifully, and it's a joy to see the characters grow into better versions of themselves - and the bumps in the road (because it would be really boring otherwise) are well-thought-out and handled very well.

Harry Crow What if the Dursleys decided to dump Harry on the goblins? This fulfils your 'excellent worldbuilding' criteria. I'd be happier if there were less sexism (I really don't think the WW is as sexist as fans think it is, not with two female founders and a female MfM in 1700-something), but overall it's an amazing fic with a really kick-ass Harry.

Lord of Caer Azkaban This takes a very cracky plot - what if Harry was Lord of Azkaban - takes it seriously, and actually does a very good job, SPAG errors aside.

I haven't actually read 5, 6 and 7
Smart of you! Honestly, I think JKR is at her best when writing the British School Story; it's when she goes outside of her wheelhouse in 5 onwards that things begin to go south rather spectacularly, especially since the woman has as much understanding of math and breeding populations as I do quantum physics. And that's not even getting into the fact that she can't, actually, worldbuild a culture for shit, since she's a nice White English lady and since when have they ever had a culture to speak of?

[hitokage]

Sorry to butt in but this -- And that's not even getting into the fact that she can't, actually, worldbuild a culture for shit, since she's a nice White English lady and since when have they ever had a culture to speak of? -- I may have to love you a little for this because YES YES YES. I've been feeling this SO MUCH for years, but everyone in my immediate circle seems to think she's a terrific world builder and I'm just like... but no?

[swingandswirl]

No worries! Fair warning, I actually have Theories about this and you've accidentally given me permission to spout them at you. Sorry in advance XD

everyone in my immediate circle seems to think she's a terrific world builder
Is your circle mostly American, by any chance? I ask because I've had American friends rhapsodise about how 'inventive' Hogwarts and the whole House system is, and I'm just sitting there dying laughing because Hogwarts is your bog standard British fancy boarding school with magic.

And I think the other major factor is that JKR is very good at funny names and clever little tricks of wordplay, which obscures the fact that the larger bones of her world-building - how the WW gets its food, how in the world they have a breeding population with one school, why we don't see any actual pureblood culture - just aren't there. It's like a building with absolutely gorgeous external details- stained glass windows, gold filigree on the roofs, the whole shebang- but then the damned support beams might as well be made of cardboard and candy floss.

[hitokage]

It is, though the school system itself is not usually cited as proof of her worldbuilding because apparently there's enough familiarity with Boarding School As Trope to know that? There are several non-Americans and also many Whovians, soooo. But it does feel like most of my (admittedly very small) circle is happy to point at the wallpaper and never notice the lack of sensible infrastructure. And with JKR now trying to expand her world outside the UK, that lack of serious thought to How Things Work, just... grinds my gears, so to speak. Like don't even get me started on how fundamentally broken the Fantastic Beasts movie is. Loved the story, but it's utter fantasy even beyond the use of magic.

[swingandswirl]

And with JKR now trying to expand her world outside the UK, that lack of serious thought to How Things Work, just... grinds my gears, so to speak.
If it helps, you're not the only one, and her lack of Serious Thought is pretty evident even within the British magical world itself. Like, why are English parents sending their kids to school in Scotland? Why is there only one school where Latinate magic is the only kind taught? (I mean, the answer there is imperialism, but I don't want it to be.) And that's not even getting in to how thoroughly borked the world-building is when you get out of the British isles.

I decided I was pretty much done with her when she declared there were only eleven schools of magic the world over, and one in Africa and none in India. The stupid, it burns us, precious.

[jennaria]

So far I've read Lord Of Caer Azkaban (loses points for 'well then we'll just share him! :-D :-D :-D', gains them for 'wait, if Harry's army is that bad-ass, then it makes no sense for a big dramatic battle confrontation between Harry and Voldemort! ...cool, commandos it is.'), and Harry Crow (fun! although you're right, loses points for sexism, also for only remembering that gay people exist half-way through the story, but gains them for world-building and well-handled villainy, especially in the second half).

(I will admit to rolling my eyes, just a little, at S'Tarkan's saying that to him, slash is automatically OOC.)

It's easy to 'world-build' when all you're doing is grafting something on to your own culture - and by 'own culture' I include race, country (and maybe region and city too) where you grew up, and social class. It gets more complicated as soon as you step beyond that.

[swingandswirl]

I will admit to forgiving Caer Azkaban's 'well then we'll just share him' because I really really hate love triangles, so that was a refreshing change (and rather eye-opening to a sheltered wee!Tam.) And I'd missed that comment of S'Tarkan's completely! Rolling my eyes forever.

I will say, though, that I am a little more forgiving of fics as old as these are (looking at the publishing dates, they're both over a decade old, while Harry Crow is still no spring chicken with a publishing date of 2012) because I remember what the environment, especially on FF.net, was like back then. No outright homophobia/ 'eww slash gross' was, IIRC, pretty progressive.

It's easy to 'world-build' when all you're doing is grafting something on to your own culture - and by 'own culture' I include race, country (and maybe region and city too) where you grew up, and social class.
BINGO. And JKR is really good at amusing little twists on the familiar. She just fails epically at stepping out of her Nice White British Lady wheelhouse, and doesn't seem to be willing to do any research to fix that. Which is especially infuriating because she of all the authors in the world has the resources.

[merit]

There's a lot of really, really good HP fic but it can be a mission to find it! I remember when marriage law fics were all the rage, Neville/Draco is actually the Chosen One, all the flashbacks to the 70s, Harry travels back in time to X period...

From memory, there was a big shift when GoF came out (since there was such a large gap between it and OotP that there was a massive surge of fics) and then OotP ruined a lot of fanon.

[jennaria]

I remember, back in the day (before GoF came out), I was on the hpslash mailing list, and people pretty much only wrote three pairings - Harry/Ron, Harry/Draco, and Remus/Sirius. When someone started writing Seamus/Dean, it was new and shocking.

...and then I drifted out of the fandom. I've glanced at the fanfic every so often since then, but as you said, it's hard to find good fic. 'Sort by kudos' only gets you so far, when there's literally 5000 pages of fic to look through. This is the first time I've made an active attempt.

[jenett]

I find the responses to the GoF gap so fascinating. (also, I am firmly in Camp "The Deathly Hallows subplot makes no sense.")

I worked out a lot of my issues with the canon via Alternity (which, y'know, if you want to be busy reading for a good while, there's a lot of stuff there. We got a lot better around Y2, and really hit our stride in Y4. Y1 was the shortest year in word and post count by far, so it goes fast.) Readable via journal entries, but probably easier by PDF - website over here has context, and PDFs for download and other links, and I am here for questions if people have them.)

More to the point, we had a lot of conversations in the process about what parts of canon we thought made absolutely no sense, which we liked, but needed modification, and which we wanted to run hard with. (We were universally on "The Deathly Hallows are a silly plot" and ignoring it, for the record. Complete with Monty Python noises in my head.)

On other recs: Lust Over Pendle and the sequels remain about an annual reread for me because I am apparently right here for manners novels with shennanigans and completely ridiculous magical theory.

[jennaria]

You could work with the Deathly Hallows subplot, you'd just need to plant it a lot sooner. Not have it come out of nowhere. (And I freely admit I'm working off of second-hand information. Thus the planned re-read of canon.)

Still need to download that! I tried reading it on the journals, and got very lost. And Lust Over Pendle I only know from mentions on fandom_wank, because Harry Potter fandom. :resigned sigh: